Lawrence Reginald Lucas
Montford Point Marine

My name is Charles Harrell and I'm here interviewing Mr. Lucas about his World War II experiences. For the record, Mr. Lucas, can you please state your full name.

Lawrence R. Lucas. Lawrence Reginald Lucas.

And your birth date sir.

August 3rd, 1923.

And today is June 28th, 2004. What branch of service did you serve in?

U.S. Marine Corps.

And what was your rank when you went into the service and when you came out?

I went in as a private and came out as a corporal.

Were you drafted or enlisted when you joined the service sir?

I volunteered enlistment. But I do feel that I would have been drafted into the army. So I volunteered to enlist in the Marine Corps.

Why do you think you would have been drafted?

Well, I was of draft age and they seemed to be calling, so, people, so I did not take a chance on going into the army.

And where were you living at this time?

I was living in Fredericksburg.

With your parents?

No. My parents died when I was young. At least my mother did. My father, he died maybe after I got to be a young adult.

How were you able to survive during the Great Depression?

Such as what?

During the Great Depression?

Well, I was not actually born during the time of the Great Depression. But I worked even as I was going to. I started work when I was thirteen years old when I was going to school. So I was surviving very young.

And what school did you attend?

I attended Fredericksburg Elementary School and then Mayfield High School, which is in old, what they call Mayfield but my senior year they had built a new school Walker Grant High School. So I attended that my senior year.

Did you go to any schooling after High School?

Well, I went to Virginia State College on the government program but I did not stay but three months because all I could see at that time opportunities for me as a college graduate was to be a teacher, a preacher, or a doctor. And I had no desire to be either one.

What did you hope to become?

Well, at that time, I had on my mind to become a mechanic, automobile mechanic.

Why did you pick the Marines to join?

I may sound kind of silly, but I was only weighing 127 pounds. And so I picked something tough to make up for may lack of weight.

Did you have any friends who joined at the same time?

Yea, I did have some. I can't remember now, if it was one or two of my close High School friends we joined at the same time.

Were you hoping to be in the same corps or regiment?

Yea, we got, went all the way through, one went all the way through the Marine Corps with me and got out the same time.

What did it feel like, that first day you went into the service?

Well, I was very afraid and wondered if I had made a mistake because the treatment we received, the base where we were sent. Now I must admit here, the treatment was not necessary because of discrimination, it was just treatment from the drill instructors and sergeants over us as privates made me doubt if I really had, wished I had stayed home.

Can you recall the first memory you have of going into basic training?

Yes, I can recall that they did a lot, first part they did a lot of running and then drilling. I always could move fast because I was very light weight. And the drill a lot, I caught on to that very quick. And so there was no problem in that part of it. Only thing they, what it was, they run you through the swamps. You didn't have but two sets of cloths. And you would get on set all muddy, you would come back and washing those and put the clean set on and by that time, they are running you again.

5:45

Mr. Lucas, where and when did you report to your first day?

I reported, actually joined in Richmond on the 22nd of May, and then, 1943, and then we were sent to Camp Lejune, NC, Montford Point. Camp Lejune, NC, that's were we were sent.

Do you remember any of your instructors as being nice or extremely harsh that you can recall?

Well, all of them, that I can remember at that time, I can't remember any of them being nice. All of the them were tough and extremely hard.

So how did you get through, was it six weeks or eight weeks of training?

It was approximately eight weeks I think. Yes. Well, just. All the time they create a, I can't say what they create in you but it makes you feel that if this man over here can do it, I can do it. What they put in your mind, that's what keeps you going.

Did you feel that you were singled out during any time in basic training?

No. I did not feel singled out. So what I did, everybody did.

Including your friends from Fredericksburg?

Right. Everybody got the same treatment.

While you were in basic, did you make any new friends that you would like to mention?

Yes, yes I made new friends. Yea.

After you got back, or after you got done with basic training, where exactly did you go?

7:46

Well, they sent us to, I don't believe I came home. They sent us to Providence Rhode Island, Davisville Navy Base, which was Seabee Base. And then they put us on a boat and shipped us overseas.

Did you have any specialized training?

No specialized training what so every. No, we did not have, the blacks did not have those opportunities at that time because each, all of us were considered stevedores just to unload ships. That's what we were considered. Even though I never unload a ship in my life.

When you left Rhode Island, you were aboard ship going where?

Well, we did not know where we were going. But we did, first base we hit was, well we stopped in Panama a couple days. Then we went to American Somoa. Stayed there a couple of days. There I met a white friend I grew up with.

From Fredericksburg?

From Fredericksburg. He lived one street and I lived the next street. About the same age and he was very nice to me. Wanted to know if I needed any money or anything. I told him, "No, just give me something to eat." And so happened he was a baker. He loaded me down with donuts. And then we left American Somoa and we went to Ellis Islands. One, we were, I remember two. One was an island. It was just a bunch of islands, maybe a couple hundred yards apart. One, one island was named Funi Futi (sp.?) and the other was Amatuka. We were on Amatuka. The only thing that was on Amatuka was rats, land craft, ammunition, and fuel.

What did you do on Amatuka?

Well, first I would like to say there was about a hundred black marines. And the rest on this island were white marines. So, what we did, what most of the guys unload ships that had a switchboard setup there for communication. So they really needed somebody to help on the switchboard. By having worked at hotels when I was very young, I knew how to operate switchboards. So they asked who could do it. Well, I told them I could, even though I had to learn a lot. But, I worked on the switchboard. I think we stayed there approximately eighteen months. And that is what I did on the switchboard.

When you were on the switchboard, do you recall any particular message you might have taken or connected?

Yea. Most messages that I had to watch out for was an air raid or something to come in. There was "Mighty Orange, Mighty Yellow, and Mighty Red." They were the codes. And so when those messages would come in, well, I had to see that every, that the word go to somebody in authority. So, that's was a right good job.

Were you any particular regiment at this time?

Well, we were in what you called the 7th Depot Company. I don't know, there was a white marine division. I don't know weather it was the 4th or 5th Division there that we were attached to.

And do you remember the name of you commanding officer or anyone else?

No, I can't remember the name of my commanding officer.

For eighteen months you were on Amatuka.

Yes.

Besides working on the switchboard, what other rememberable occasions do you remember for those eighteen months?

Well, I remember one night. I was not on duty that night. That a, we were talking about going home. We were maybe there about a year. Everybody said that the word was we were going home. Then everybody talked that I like see some action before we go. And then I remember hearing a noise, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. They were having an air raid. Not on the island I was on, but on Funi Futi which was couple hundred yards away. That's what they were bombing. So I remember jumping out of, we call it sack, but jumping out of bed. And I ran out, I ran into one of these amphibious dukws. And I bounced off that. Then, we had not dug fox holes even now, while white marines had fox holes. So I went into a fox hole. I thought it was everybody's fox hole. Then I remember this white marine pulling a .45 out on me and making me get out of his fox hole. And so I got out of it. And then the next day, well I dug, I got a couple of buddies, we started digging fox holes. And we cut down coconut trees to put across it, then got sand off the beach, put it in bags and put sand bags around it. Then, we almost got court marshaled for cutting down the tree. The island belonged, I forget who the island belonged to, but it did not belong to the United States. And we did not have permission to cut down the tree. So that is just one of the things that I can remember that happened there.

For an entire year, you had been on an island and you hadn't come under attack?

We had several bombing raids, but they were not trying to hit us for some reason, they were trying to hit the other island only a couple hundred yards away from us. But it they were bombing, we had no idea which way the bomb was going to fall.

Did you ever see the enemy aircraft or just hear the bombs?

Oh, yes, we saw the aircraft.

Were you trained to identify that, or to operate any weapons?

No, at that time we had no training. No. I mean a minimum amount of training. Shooting a rifle, something like that. But no anti-aircraft guns or anything.

We there many casualties in your group?

No.

Did you ever come under enemy rifle attack?

No.

After you spent eighteen months on Amatuka, where were you sent?

So were sent back to Pearl Harbor, Camp Catlitt. And then we stayed there a while, then we went to Helo Hawaii. And that is where we spent the rest of the time, in Helo.

16:15

So, what was you job there in Helo?

Well, in Helo I drove a truck in Helo.

Can you describe your truck and some memorable experiences?

Every dump truck. Hauling sand and stuff to build ramps from the beach so trucks, boats could come up to the beach. So we would build ramps like that. So that was quiet there but one thing, I always wanted to go back there because on our off duty, we built a church over there. And I often wondered what happened to that church. We did that because we wanted to do it. It was relaxation from the Marine Corps just to get out among people.

Did you see or have a good friend captured as a prisoner?

No.

Did you see any Japanese prisoners?

No.

Did you get any medals or citations for your experience?

Only good conduct, sharp shooter for rifle, Asiatic-Pacific Medal and they did consider the combat medal for over in Amatuka.

Because you were under attack?

Right.

Do you remember the number of times you were attacked?

No, I don't remember how many. It was frequently though.

Frequently after six or eight months you were there or?

Frequently after, I think they started coming in around eight or twelve months. That is when we started getting attacked.

Did you ever get sick or have any friends who got sick while they were in the service?

No, sickness is one thing that we never even thought about being sick. Never even thought about it.

Was there a hospital on either of the two islands that you remember?

As I said, navy corpsmen there. No hospitals.

How was the food while you were in the Marine Corps in the service?

Terrible. Terrible. Food was terrible.

Do you remember any one that was worse than the others and what it was?

I can't say. Practically we ate the same thing all the time. I remember we ate a lot of spam. Looked like they would take fry it in the morning, boil it for lunch, and bake it in the evening.

Did you have any superiors who kept watch over what you were doing that you remember?

Most of our superiors, once they could find you could do your job, what ever they asked you to do, they didn't bother you. No, they didn't bother you. They would leave you alone.

So on Amatuka, you were working on the switchboard for all eighteen months?

Right.

And then you went to Hawaii, then Helo where you were building things.

Drove a truck. Right.

Did you work any other heavy equipment?

Just playing around with it. Never was assigned to it. If it was there one day, guy who was operating it took a break, I would get on it and just play with it, but not really assigned to it.

When you were in Helo, how was life compared to Amatuka?

Oh, Helo was fine. Helo reminded me so much of Fredericksburg. It was a little small town. It was not fast. Over by Camp Catlett where Honolulu was, that was just like New York City. Helo was just quiet, small. The people were very friendly, the closeness of it.

Can you describe to me any time you went on vacation or furlough?

I went from Helo, once, I learned that my brother-in-law was in Honolulu. He was in the army. So I went over to see him. And so I had a 24 hour pass. So I never did see him. He was on one corner and I was on the other corner. As he would move around the block, I would move. And we never got to see each other. I remember that.

How was life aboard the transportation you had, like the ships and, if you rode in a plane?

Well, going overseas, we were on a freighter with about 1100 Seabees. In the navy, they ate well. They slept well. I slept on the top deck of the freighter. And I put boards under me and poncho, as we called it, the keep the rain off, we could also make a tent or wear it, and I would put that over me so it would rain over top the poncho and by sleeping up on boards, the water would run underneath me. As far as eating, we only had two meals a day. And there were so many other marines get into the line to eat breakfast, get in to line to get your breakfast, get out of line, eat it, then you get on the end of the line again, by that time its lunch time. To get the two meals. The navy, they ate well. They would be down in the dining hall. Sometimes I would go down and peak and they ate good.

Did you ride on any other ships besides that freighter?

Only, what they call LSTs and that kind of stuff. Going over, that was the only thing I was on, that freighter. Going over.

When you rode on the LST, what was your job there?

Well, we were just going from Helo to Honolulu there.

When you were in Honolulu, did you see what the Navy Base looked like by the time you were there?

Well, I never got to see the navy base. They had a Marine Base. I do remember when I was there. I had been out on a liberty there. After being wild and foolish, I had been out partying and I came back and a guy told me, say, "A captain had called here for you." I say, "A captain!" And I said, "What did I do, I wonder?" So I left and then called him back and it was a very good friend who used to be post master back in Fredericksburg. He happened to know me. His name was Lem Houston. So I called him. He say that he had heard that I was over there and he wanted me to go with him in the outfit he was in. So I told him to give me a while to think about it. So I thought about it and I called him back and I told him that I would rather stay with the guys that I'm with because this hundred or so of us had been together all the time, we had almost formed a family. So, I'm glad I told him because they took off and went straight to Iwo Jima or Saipan. That's where a lot of marines got killed. So, I'm glad I stayed away from that.

Did you keep in close touch with these men after the war was over?

Yea, I kept very close touch. One of my best friends, though, stayed in the Marine Corps for thirty years. I think it was last year, I went on the computer and located him and I had not heard from him in fifty years. And they are, I know I have one in Atlanta, Georgia that we get emails all the time. And then they have a Montford Point Marine chapter in Washington, which I belong to. In fact, they are having a convention up there July 23rd, but I don't, I want to go, but my wife is not well, I can't drive to D.C. and so I guess I have to pass it up. That is when all the old Montford, in fact the black marines went to Montford Point, which was, only the blacks went there at that time, the whites went to Paris Island, and so when you hear about a Montford Point Marine it is one of the original black marines, they served, they served in the Marine Corps.

Did you experience any type of entertainment while you were a marine? Any shows or?

No, they, let me see. No, no entertainment. We did not see any entertainment. Only thing is that we did have a basketball team which we played against the other units. That's about all.

Did you play?

27:50

Yea. Me and my 127 pounds. Yea, I wasn't too bad.

Were you a winning team and describe?

Yea. We did not win the finals but we played in the finals, we lost. We had a good team. Very good.

Did you only play against other black marines or black soldiers or were you playing against white soldier's too?

We played against the black, like the navy and the army. You see, the Marine Corps wasn't integrated at that time. It was completely segregated. We had black bathrooms, black quarters to live in, black quarters to sleep in.

Did you ever regret joining the Marine Corps rather than some other branch of the service?

No, the only thing but I guess at that time the air force was just as bad. Lack of opportunities. However, I did go back into the Marine Corps. I joined the reserves and I went back during the Korean War. It was integrated. But back to World War II, I think they started letting the marines back into the Marine Corps, I think in October 1942. And I went in May, 1943. So they just started letting us in. We had a pretty rough time. Can't say a lot of whites were being hard on us because we were only among blacks, most of the time.

29:56

Were you married before the war?

No.

Before you enlisted, and even before we got involved with the war in December 1941, could you see, or what was your feeling about what was happening in the world?

Oh, really, as far as the United States was, I didn't see anything wrong with that. I not see anything wrong with it. Of course, Hitler, that part was wrong. But, I worked then I went to college for three months, and so, that was after I finished high school. Even went to New Jersey, spent two or three months up there. I was, I was more than happy I was more tired of doing nothing. And I don't regret going into the Marine Corps.

Do you remember the day of December 7th, 1941, the day when we were attacked?

Well, I slightly remember it.

What do you recall?

Well, the most I recall was the headlines in the newspapers. And I even started selling newspapers. I'd stand on the corner in Fredericksburg with a thoroughfare through there and I'd stand and sell newspapers. Shame I made a lot of money off the war, but I did it. Yes, indeed.

Do you recall the very last day before you left Helo to go home?

No. I can't say nothing special. I know we came home, came home on an aircraft carrier. I remember just playing football on the beach, we'd need to get on the carrier.

What carrier did you come home on?

I can't remember the name of that carrier. It was a nice ship. Very nice.

And what was, where did you go when were coming home? Did you go…

We came to San Diego, California.

And from there?

Well, that's where I was discharged. In California.

What do you remember about your discharge day?

I remember having to stay out there about three days before the ship could get into the harbor it was so crowded. And then we stayed on the, they kept us at, at, Camp Pendleton. They kept us there, I forget how long before they sent us to North Carolina. And then they processed and everything. Most of it was done in California and then they sent us to North Carolina, back to Camp Lejune again. But when I got back to Camp Lejune, all I wanted to do was get out. In fact, everybody who came back, I believe they had a, like you'd get another stripe where you got out. I never got mine. I never, ever, in fact I didn't even care what was going on. I didn't need this stripe, I'm going home. In 1948 I enlisted in the reserves. And I did go back, got called back in 1950. That during the Korean War.

I want to come back to the Korean War in a moment.

Right, right.

When you got discharged from Paris Island NC…

Camp Lejune.

Camp Lejune, NC, did they give you any money or tickets to get home to Fredericksburg?

I think they gave us. I don't remember any money part, but they gave us tickets to Fredericksburg. Yea.

And what was your experience, while you were riding a train.

Yea.

And then got into Fredericksburg, got off the train. What was your feeling and what did you plan to do that day?

Well, nothing exciting, just go to my grandparents, who actually lived across the street from where I had lived. Just go there, and then around town to see what was going on. Nothing exciting.

What did your grandparents think when they first saw you after being gone?

They were very glad to see me. They were very glad. They knew I was always surviving. Practically took care of my own self. They would give me advise but that was it. And I would go there when I needed them.

After the war, what did you, did you go back to school, or get a job?

I'm trying to think. What did I do? I went back to the hotel where I had worked when I was going to school and I got a job there. Worked at the hotel. And then, my father had been a barber. And my brother was a barber. And I learned to be a barber also at that time.

And how long were you a barber?

How long? Well to be truthful, I cut hair some now. I have a shop over in my garage.

Had you expected to become that mechanic you had wanted to become?

No, I had forgotten all about that then. I really had forgotten it. That didn't cross my mind.

How were treated back home by your neighbors and by the community as a war veteran?

Well, nothing great was made of it. You were just the same then as you were before you left. Everybody treated you nice and recognized that you had been in service. But no big to do over it.

Did you see any change in Fredericksburg from the time you left to the time you came back?

No. At that time no. It was still the same.

You mentioned that you joined a veterans organization. Can you tell me its name again?

Veterans organization? I belong to the Montford Point Marines which was all black marines. And they were the first marines to go in. In fact, I was one of the first three that went in the Marine Corps from this area. And, but I also belong to American Legion, Disabled Veterans, Veterans of Foreign Wars. And we have a former marine chapter in Fredericksburg now, which I am the only black on that attends. We meet every first Wednesday. And the Montford Point Marines, that's the one that really stands out for me.

So what did you do after the war as a career?

Well, I got married and had, after World War II, I got married and had two children. I still worked at the hotel and a barber, cut hair. And then, I think I got out of the Marine Corps in December '45, and in 1948 I joined the reserves. In 1950 I was called back into the Marine Corps with one little baby 15 months old and I was running the barbershop.

What did you do when you were recalled?

Well, I think they called me up Quantico for a physical. They put me on the train to go to Camp Lejune. I, I, train stopped at Fredericksburg. I lived half a block from the train station. I got of the train. To go home, see my family, and to do something about the barbershop I had. I stayed home about two weeks. And I caught a bus down there. And to North Carolina. And going down, we met a bus that had broken down coming from I think Boston that had all Marine Reserves going down there, so they loaded those guys on our bus, the bus I was on, and the other passengers got off. So I went onto camp with those guys and they never knew I had been AWOL. They never even knew it. I was down there. At that time I was went back in, I drove a truck there. I stayed in that time for a year. But I did not go over to Korea. Most we did was to transport the marines to Morehead City who would go out to play. That's when I was in motor transport.

41:12

And you finally ended that on what date? Do you remember?

Got out of Korean War? I don't. They released me. I don't remember when they released me. I think it was probably around December. I know around the 1st of the following year I went to Quantico to work there. And my health went bad with T.B. and I put into the V.A. hospital in Richmond. I did know I got my official discharge while I was in the, around 1952, while I was in the V.A. Hospital in Richmond.

At the end of World War II, when the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki occurred, do remember your understanding about the dropping of the Atomic Bombs and how did that make you feel?

Well, I think it was very bad we had to do it, really. I think it was very bad that we had to go that extreme. Of course, it may have been the best thing. But getting back to Amatuka, the island was where all those planes going to wonder was going to bomb something, would go over where I was stationed. I could identify any plane that would go over there, even by the sound. And could almost tell you how many were in the formation. So I would just watch these planes and wonder where were they going? What were they going to do? I think it was a terrible thing to drop that atomic bomb. Maybe we had no choice.

Did you know within a week what had happened?

Yea. Yea.

And when you said you saw airplanes flying over your island going to bomb where ever the Japanese forces were, was there an Air Force Base or Marine Corps Air base nearby Amatuka?

Well, I know there was one at the Gilbert Islands. But they could fly a long way but the bombers, but actually there was no Air Force base close to me.

You mention that you attend reunions of the black marines. What was the name of that organization?

Montford Point Marines.

Montford Point Marines. I hope that you can tell them about this project too, and realize it is not just me doing the interviews. Many people around the country are. And encourage them to have their reminiscences recorded for posterity. And if there is any way I can help you by publicizing the Monford Point Marines, something I never even heard of before, I will. And as a teacher, who teaches U.S. History, I will be teaching about the Montford Point Marines now. Are there any final remarks you would like to make about your experience and how your experience will lead us as a nation in the future when we get involved in more wars?

Well, I finally relieved in war that we can really bomb anybody we want. We are stronger. But first, before you go to that extreme, find out how you're going to change a person's heart. Like Iraq, over there. Maybe we had to go, maybe we didn't. But we bombed the people. Almost bombed them off the map. But we did not try to change the hearts first, you know. I think that cause their problem, which I will never see the end in my life time. I will never see the end. I. And also the Marine Corps really helped me to be a better person I think. Well, I learned how to discipline. To do a job. I didn't need anybody standing over me forcing me to do it. Do the best you can. And something I cannot do, I ask questions. Sir, would you help me, I'm hung up here. And then, they just instill in you to try to be a better person. That's in the Marine Corps. That's the thing I learned in the Marine Corps than if I put four years in college. I do believe.

Well, thank you for this interview, Mr. Lucas.

Yes, sir.